Producer's Note
This is our first episode for the “Script Your Future” podcast at NCPA Foundation. We're aware that the audio quality has some room for improvement, and we'll be working to enhance the sound in future episodes. Thank you for your understanding as we develop this new platform for sharing pharmacy stories and insights.
Introduction
Host Sonja Pagniano, Executive Director of the NCPA Foundation welcomes guest Sam Smith, a pharmacy student at Mercer University who will be graduating this May. The episode focuses on Sam's passion for community pharmacy and his entrepreneurial aspirations.
Interview
Sonja: Hi, Sam. Thanks for joining me on our first podcast episode today for the NCPA Foundation. How are you today?
Sam: I'm doing great, Sonja. Thanks for having me.
Sonja: Thanks so much for joining us. So, I understand you are a pharmacy student at Mercer, and that you're going to be graduating next this May.
Sam: Yes, ma'am. That is correct.
Sonja: Tell us a little bit about your passion for community pharmacy. What got you interested in it?
Sam: Sure. So, I got into pharmacy, back when I was doing my prerequisites for pharmacy school and really wanted to get the full picture of both community pharmacy and hospital pharmacy. Because, originally, I thought that I would be interested in hospital pharmacy, but started in the community setting, actually with Publix Pharmacy, got into it as a pharmacy technician while I was working on my prerequisites and really just enjoyed the setting, enjoyed the small team setting, and even more so, enjoyed getting to see patients on a regular basis and form those relationships, and just to be able to check in on them with their medications, but also with just their life. So, really fell in love with community pharmacy there.
Again, was kind of using community pharmacy as a stepping stone to get into the hospital. And then when I got to the hospital, all that I realized was that I missed my patients and I missed my small team atmosphere. So, I realized pretty quickly that the hospital wasn't for me. So, really fell in love was my first experience with community pharmacy. And then as I got into school, just learning more about the position that the community pharmacist has and that realization that we are the most successful healthcare provider. So, to have the honor of being in that position and also just realizing the weight that comes with that and the impact that I could have on a patient's life. That really just further encouraged my draw towards community pharmacy. And then was lucky enough to get involved and network with a lot of independent community pharmacists. And then a whole other world was opened as I saw the potentials there.
Sonja: How did you end up networking with other independent community pharmacists?
Sam: Yeah, so, at first my school kind of had a lot of forced networking opportunities. Which was great, because I would describe myself as probably mostly an introvert. I'm not an extreme introvert, but mostly so. the networking was not something I felt that I would be good at. But through Mercer and through some of their organized events, I was able to, especially even, the, it was a reception. It was either at lunch or at dinner. We had somewhere around our white coat ceremony. And I was seated at the table with an independent community pharmacist who owns several pharmacies here in the Georgia area. And was able to meet him and talk to him and introduce myself and, it was instances like that at first that allowed me to connect into that space… But then meeting with them and seeking out other independent community pharmacists and see what it is and who else they can introduce me to…just kind of spiraled that ability to meet those and continue to learn more and more about independent pharmacy.
Sonja: That's incredible. It really is those, little moments where we get to meet people who kind of change our life and our path. They make all the difference.
Sam: Exactly.
Sonja: So how did you end up doing joining the National Community Pharmacists Association?
Sam: Sure. So when I got to school, of course, our school, like many others I know of, have kind of a introduction, like a lunch or a fair or some sort to expose the new students to all of the opportunities, the, to join a professional organization, at least at the student level at their school. I checked them out. Walked around, noticed the National Community Pharmacists Association, booths, if you will, and got some more information, went to the first couple of meetings, knowing that I already really liked community pharmacy, and so, started going to the meetings in P1 and tried to get involved and tried to just meet everybody who was like-minded in, wanting to pursue community pharmacy. And then, as I went into my P2 year, knew I wanted to, begin contributing to that club and hopefully recruiting other P1s, into an interest in community pharmacy, because at the time, and I think, you know, physicians and, and their print that go on even in the pharmacy space, but as I was getting into pharmacy school, community pharmacy was a little bit on the downtrend, at least in regards to comparison with industry jobs and clinical pharmacist positions in the hospital setting. So, part of me was just anxious to convince other people of what I knew to be true.
We, as community pharmacists, could really have a huge impact on the community, and we could impact a lot of people in that position. And then, of course, as I got into NCPA, you know, just all of these different ways of having my eyes opened. First, following up with community pharmacy, then really getting interested in independent community pharmacy, and then getting into NCPA, the big eye-opener there was the clinical services that could be translated from what was traditionally done in a doctor's office or in a hospital setting. How easily those could be translated over to the community setting, and then further, what, how that could further encourage and increase the impact that we would have as a community pharmacist. So, yeah, I was kind of hooked at that point, and that's when I ran for president at Mercer to be the president of our NCPA, chapter.
Sonja: No kidding.
Sam: Which, that was. and then, from there, was in encouraged, so I took on the president-elect position, of course, first, and then was encouraged by our current president during that time to apply for the Student Leadership Council with NCPA, and, applied, and was accepted and invited onto the team, and then, of course, that just opened more doors and more exposure to, the incredible organization that NCPA is, and to what was possible in the position of a community pharmacist.
Sonja: Wow, what a trajectory. I feel like that's the kind of energy that I personally hope for for the profession, that that stays with the profession and continues to grow, even with all the challenges, right? Because I feel like any industry has its challenges, but if you are creative and nimble, and you look for ways to overcome that adversity, it's people like yourself, young leaders coming up in this industry, that I think will really make all the difference.
Sam: 06:32 Exactly, I couldn't agree more. And really, you do have to keep your eyes on the prize, and on the impact and potential that you can have as a healthcare provider. And exactly, like you said, one of my favorite parts about independent community pharmacy in particular is the ability to pivot when needed. Yes. It was the independent community pharmacists that pivoted so quickly during COVID to offer vaccines. It's the independent community pharmacists now, they're pivoting so quickly, as scope of practice has expanded in some states, as we're able to do what we're already trained to do. But then given permission to do, through our state legislators, and, independent community pharmacists are just able to pivot quickly to do that. And that's one of the things I love about independents, is that, we can respond so quickly and impact patient health so quickly.
Sonja: So I know as independent community pharmacists, they tend to wear a lot of hats, as do you, as a person with a young family, getting your career started, wanting to open a pharmacy, how do you balance all of that and still maintain, right, this level of energy?
Sam: Sure. Well, the first thing I have to do is say a huge thank you to my incredible wife, who is a, she's clinical nurse manager for a large health care system here in Georgia.
And she's just, she can do it all. She can be a nurse manager and work full-time and help raise our three kids, and she actually went back to school. While I've been in school she got her master's degree.
Sonja: Oh my goodness.
Sam: Just, we, we work well as a team. So that would be the first thing I would say is just find someone, who's on your side, who's got your back and who can be an incredible team member to do all the things that you want to do separately and together and with your family, because it's important to us as the family to value our time together. And so we've, we've tried to do that. But to your question, yeah, balancing, it's just, it's a lot of scheduling. It's a lot of doing what you can and cannot do. And, it's a lot of saying no sometimes to opportunities that come along and then saying yes to the ones that you can fit into your schedule. Someone on your side, having a partner who understands your priorities, and being able to communicate and do all the things that you want to do is extremely important.
And like I said, time management is huge. Being able to know what time during my day do I have to study? What time during my day do I need to be dad? What time during my day do I need to be husband? And knowing those priorities and getting that right has been critical to success. And then also one thing that's great about Independent Community Pharmacy is there is flexibility. There is communication, and everyone knows that we have families. We have life. And so that that's important. And I've really appreciated the respect that's come with me trying to do this with the family and the support that's come with that as well. And just the flexibility of being everyone's had around my schedule and still being willing to show me at my ability to how to run a pharmacy, how to be a manager, how to be an owner, all those things that have come along with these great experiences I've had through NCPA and through school.
Sonja: Yeah, I definitely think having a strong support network as an entrepreneur is so key. Because I mean, your challenges aren't ever gonna stop, right? Whether they could be come from home or work or anywhere else. So, that is really, really great to have that already in place, before ownership. As you know, the NCPA Foundation offers scholarships to students and we've done this since 1953. That was one of the reasons why the foundation was started was to make sure that students in pharmacy school who wanted to pursue ownership that they had the financial support to have the education that they need to become strong owners of pharmacies for the future. And we've also invested in the POLA program at the University of Arkansas and I understand you were able to take part in that program as well as NCPA's student business plan competition. Tell us a little bit about that. Those experiences and how they had an impact on you as a student.
Sam: 10:42 So the NCPA foundation has been critical in my pharmacy career and that's because I've been fortunate enough to accept two, maybe three, I can't remember, scholarships from the foundation. And I've been incredibly thankful for that financial support. But as you said, I've also been able to attend the pharmacy Ownership and Leadership Academy, POLA, as well. And I will say that experience was probably a pivotal moment in my pharmacy school career, because as I tell people, as I encouraged some of my classmates to apply for POLA, the difference was that before POLA, I knew I wanted to be an owner, and that scared me. I was afraid. I was like, I'm not sure if I can do that. There's a lot that goes on with being an owner. And then POLA, being a one-week program, and it's intensive, and it's awesome, but the difference was, after POLA, I knew I could be an owner.
I went from knowing I wanted to do it, but not really sure how to get my hands on the handlebars and actually, actually do it. And then after POLA, I had the confidence and the tools that I needed to know that, sure, I didn't have the answer to every question, but I knew I was confident enough to know that I was going to be successful, eventually, you know, whenever the opportunity comes for me to be able to own a pharmacy. And that was, again, an extremely pivotal point in my pharmaceutical career, because I gained the confidence I needed to be an owner.
And then took that, translated that into the other kind of major aspect of the NCPA - that is the business plan competition. I competed the year before I attended POLA, and, was thankful for that experience, actually went through a class that was offered as an elective at Mercer, that kind of prepared us for ownership, tried to teach us some of the managerial aspects, and the, finances, and all the things that go into the ownership of more ownership, style that's needed outside of the pharmaceutical knowledge. So, I competed that year, and it was a good experience, but then after POLA, I felt way more confident in writing a business plan. But, the business plan competition, what it does, is it really forces you to answer all the questions. It makes you sit down and write out an entire plan, which can be upwards of 60 pages. Of course, there's a lot of funding, financial data, and, kind of examples and pictures and whatever. But, really sits you down and walks you through every step of the ownership process of taking a pharmacy, either from scratch, which some people choose to do, but more often, taking a pharmacy that already exists and trying to add a service or increase revenue in some way. And, it forces you to sit down and think, how would I do this? How much would it cost? How much money would I need to do it? What kind of projections should I have? Not just for the ability to actually do the service, but then, how much money is that service going to make a pharmacy in the next 3, 4, 5 years?
Sonja: Sure, the sustainability.
Sam: And kind of impact will that have? Yes, exactly. Sustainability, and what kind of impact is that going to have on the community? Is it an appropriate service for the community, or does that not fit there? It looks, it gets you to look at your community, look at your demographics, look at your insurance rates, look at your, major disease states that are present, and that even opens your eyes to just resources of information that you might not have known existed if you weren't looking to do a business plan, because there's a lot of information out there that can point you in the right direction. It points you in a successful direction, and then to receive that invaluable feedback from the graders who are independent community pharmacists themselves, to have that advice and feedback from them to then be able to refine your business plan. Of course, I'm still in my fourth year of pharmacy school, so I haven't yet had the opportunity to go out and try some of the things that I've been doing, but I know that there have been several pharmacists who have come out of school and taken their business plan and either put the entire plan or at least critical pieces of that plan into action and seen it been successful. So it's a very practical, exercise and, like I said, the feedback that you get, even if you don't make it to the top, three that get to present on stage, it's still a really valuable experience.
Sonja: 14:50 Do you plan on using the business plan that you did for your business or just, like, parts of it or none of it and you're starting all over?
Sam: Well, so, parts of it, for sure. I think, the feedback that I got was, was excellent and, I think I can shape it to a more appropriate, more reasonable service, more, vital service. For the community that I hope to end up being a pharmacist in, and while there's not an opportunity for me to own in my, soon-to-be hometown, at the moment, I, I'm constantly waiting for that opportunity, constantly looking and, and continuing to network, for sure, because that's, that's key in the world of pharmacy in general, but specifically in independent pharmacy, but looking for that opportunity. And then, you know, yeah, I certainly, I have both business plans that I was part of writing, saved on my computer to be able to go back and refine and to look at and see what would actually work and what wouldn't work now that I've, had some experience as a pharmacist here in a couple of years. so certainly, certainly planning to go back and use those again in the future.
Sonja: In your rotations and things like that, have you had any, like, memorable experiences with a patient that you'd be open to sharing?
Sam: 15:58 sure. I mean, there have been times, so I've been able to do my community pharmacy rotation already and there are times when you meet a patient, like during my rotation, you meet a patient and specifically for this rotation, I knew my preceptor pretty well, again, through networking, through, just that kind of small close-knit independent community space and was able to take on, a position as a student where I was shown more of the managerial, more of the owner side of community pharmacy, since I had experience in community pharmacy already. But what was interesting was being able to meet patients, and at this particular rotation, we had several patients who, were picking up psych meds, because of the nature of some of the facilities that were around that rotation, and it was so much, it was a different experience for me to wear both an ownership, you know, ownership and training hat, if you will, and the community pharmacists had at the same time. It's so interesting. To think about, yeah, to really think about how you can help a patient, not just as a pharmacist, you know, that's, of course, I hope to help many, I hope to help, impact many lives as a, as a pharmacist with knowledge of medications and, and health in general, but also to impact them as an owner.
It's so interesting in the sense of helping them understand what their options are, helping them understand what services I can offer them as an owner in an independent community space, and then helping them understand, what their options are as far as insurance or, as far as what their options are of ordering a medication that I can order for them, and just helping them to see that all Just because you go into a community pharmacy, doesn't mean there aren't options, and that there are more options in the independent space often than there are at maybe one of the more mainstream community pharmacies where, the patient is not getting that personal interaction, so I know that's not a very specific patient experience, but it was just very interesting to me and very impactful, I hope, for that patient. To see that there are opportunities at an independent community pharmacy that they're not going to find at one of your more mainstream retail pharmacies, and so that was a positive experience for me and hopefully a positive experience for that patient as well.
Sonja: 18:17 Yeah, Sam, this actually reminds me of something you said in a quote that I read about a health hub, like that's something that you'd envision for your own, own pharmacy, it being more of a health hub offering great services to your community.
Sam: Yeah, that's exactly right. And really that's the dream for me, for my independent future. I want to have a store that meets the needs of the community. So I have no idea what that's going to be yet. You know, that depends on when I open my store, when I take on ownership and what needs are there at the time, you know, if that's compounding needs, and certainly that's what I'll offer if that's, geriatric medications, so like home health delivery of medications through monthly packets or whatever is needed at the time is the need that I hope to meet. But exactly what you said, it was actually at POLA where I kind of started getting this, seed planted in my mind of the pharmacy. Being a health hub where a patient can just walk into my store because I am an accessible healthcare provider and say, hey, here's what I need.
Where do I go for this? And if I can't meet the need, then I hope to have networked with the doctors and dentists and, veterinarians and the other health professionals in my town to then be able to point them in the right direction to a cure. Equip and, recruit community health workers, and train my pharmacy technicians to be community health workers so that we are a central point in the community that if a patient doesn't know exactly where they should go or what they need, at the very least, I hope they know that they can come to Sam's Pharmacy and get their questions answered. And I can, if I can't help them myself, then hopefully I can point them in the right direction. And that's what I want it to be. I feel like that's what sets apart independent community pharmacies from just your regular chain retail big box pharmacies.
Sonja: 20:11 I feel like any independent community pharmacy that I've heard of or been to, they're going above and beyond for their patients in their own unique ways, kind of like what you're saying. Like, depending on what the community needs. That's the kind of things that they go above and beyond to offer and know about. And I think that's really valuable.
Sam: Exactly. And as things like collaborative practice agreements and expansion of scope become more common, I also hope that the community pharmacy that I eventually develop and evolve will be more of a one-stop-shop for people that need to, you know, be tested for COVID and then walk out with a prescription or to be, you know, have a TB test done. And I'm thinking of some of the things that where scope has been expanded specifically in Tennessee, which is where I'm going to end up practicing. But that's, that just, again, provides more options for a patient to come to the pharmacy, to get basic care services done, that they need done, and then also to have their questions answered of where should I go next, or where should I get this done, or who would you recommend for this, or, you know, my, my son has a scrape. Do you mind looking at it and telling me if we need stitches? Like, that's, that's the person I want to be, to, to be able to help the community with anything they need.
Sonja: What do you think are the biggest challenges and opportunities you have to prepare to open your pharmacy in the future?
Sam: 21:35 Sure. So, I think the biggest challenges I have are just continuing to wait for the right time. You know, right now, we're in a particularly difficult market to start a pharmacy from scratch. That's a particularly, risky adventure, so I'm not, I'm not ready to do that though and watching even the community grow that I'm going to be moving to and looking for opportunities in that way. So, current challenges are simply being patient enough to wait for the right time to enter the market and be, in a space where I can provide those services because, of course, I will need to be financially stable, in my business in order to be a good able to be helpful at all to the community. And then, but alongside that kind of parallel, the opportunities I see, in the town that I'll be moving to in Tennessee, it's growing and it's, it's headed towards, it's growing in the direction of the, the major city that's near it. But with that new, like a new dermatology office has already opened, we anticipate a new hospital, kind of satellite, campus opening within the next two years.
So the opportunities are growing all the time, and new ones are springing up all the time to meet the needs of the patients that are already there, the patients that are moving into town, and to partner with the other practitioners that are coming in to be able to meet those needs. Because people like to live in their hometown, and, that's what we're seeing is, unfortunately, one of the challenges is that a lot of patients are having to go to that next big city to have some of the healthcare services they need. So that's a challenge for them, but an opportunity for me as well, to try to meet those needs. So, that's what I'm looking at, but still, you know, trying to be patient, to wait for the right time to strike, so that I can be successful in order to have a long-term, longevity of practice for the patients.
Well, it does sound super exciting. Like, I feel like you've got so much going for you, and you for sure are probably going to end up owning your business before you know it. What advice do you have for maybe other pharmacy students? Maybe they're P1s, right? They're very fresh into the scene. They don't really know what they're doing yet. They're just kind of scoping things out. What advice do you have for those students?
Certainly. Well, I think one thing that hopefully has been clear through all of this, but I will say it again, because I think it's one of the more vital pieces of advice that I would have, and that is to network; regardless of what area you go in and I hope there's a huge trend up and to the right for pharmacy students wanting to go back into community pharmacy, but networking is critical, and it's, it's, it's going to open so many doors just to go up to another pharmacist's hand, or go up to another pharmacist, shake their hand, introduce yourself, and get to know them a little bit better.
Networking is key in pharmacy. You know, throughout school, everyone's kind of, they used it as a warning, that pharmacy is a small world, so don't make anybody mad, but I want to use it as an encouragement. Pharmacy is a small world, so go meet the one, go meet one pharmacist, and then you're going to meet five more, and then, it's just, it's exponential growth after that. So that would be my main piece of advice. It's just to put yourself out there. It might be scary at first, but man, will it be worth it?
My next piece of advice, of course, would be to get involved with a professional organization, and go out of course, I'm very partial to NCPA, get involved, get to know what’s available, that's an excellent way to network is through a professional organization such as that, but also just to have your eyes open to what opportunities are really out there. Pharmacy school is going to try to do that for you. It's going to try to show you what options you have, but you're not going to know the niche opportunities, you're not going to see the opportunity that may get closer to home for you. Until you go and invest a little bit more of your time in a professional organization and to see what they really have to offer.
And then finally, put in the work, especially if you're interested at all in being an independent community pharmacy owner, which has, so many more, pros to it than you realize until you get in and start asking questions, but put in the extra work. You don't learn a ton of ownership skills. Ownership skills in pharmacy school, because that's not really their goal. Their goal is to make you an excellent pharmacist, which is great. But if you want to be an owner, dig in, do the work, exercise your resources with NCPA and with POLA and look into what options are out there and find a mentor and, really learn what it means to be an owner so that you're prepared for that acquisition.
Sonja: Sam, that was really great advice. Thank you so much for talking to me today, sharing your story, your passion for independent community pharmacy. I feel like I can feel it through the phone. So thank you so much for sharing your insights and takeaways from your experience today. Where an listeners connect with you if they’d like?
Sam: Sure, they can find me probably on LinkedIn would be best. My handle is just my name with an Rx. So, SamSmithRx on LinkedIn. My email, I'm not afraid to share that either. It's just SamSmithRx at gmail.com. So, would love to connect with other pharmacy students, other pharmacists - and would love to be of any help that could possibly be, with when it comes to NCPA or anything to do with independent community pharmacy because that is certainly my passion, and it's really been a pleasure to join you today, Sonja.
Sonja: Thank you, Sam. You have a great one. You too. Bye-bye.
Contact Information
LinkedIn: SamSmithRx
Email: SamSmithRx@gmail.com
Episode Summary
In this inaugural episode of the NCPA Foundation Podcast, host Sonja Pagniano interviews Sam Smith, a ‘25 pharmacy student at Mercer University with a passion for independent community pharmacy. Sam shares his journey from hospital pharmacy interest to community pharmacy enthusiast, discussing how networking and NCPA involvement shaped his career path. He reflects on his experiences with the NCPA Foundation's scholarship program, the UAMS Pharmacy Ownership and Leadership Academy (POLA), and NCPA’s student business plan competition, while outlining his vision to create a "health hub" pharmacy after graduation. Sam offers valuable advice for pharmacy students interested in ownership and emphasizes the importance of finding mentors in the field.
